https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/montana/articles/2020-01-08/court-reverses-35m-verdict-against-jehovahs-witnesses.
Disappointing, yet even though the verdict was overturned, it has been in place since 2018 and it has been established for all to see, that along with many many other court cases, there was abuse that took place and reproach has been brought upon the organization.
If nothing else, the folks at Watchtower had this hanging over their heads for over a year and it cost them a bundle to defend themselves and others were encouraged to come forward as well.
i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!
i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?
" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?
John Tron 72 : What you said in your latest post might makes sense if you only read JW publications and don't look beyond the JW world. You are seeing things in a very one dimensional way. If you believe all of what you've said, I'm not sure why you even made your original post.
If you were God and gave man and woman everything to the eye on Earth freely, how would you know they truly were appricitive of the gift?
What would you think if a father built his children a play house and put a pile of broken glass over in one corner just to see if they'd show their appreciation for him by not playing in that corner? I'm guessing you'd think he was a pretty sick man and you'd wonder why he needed so badly to be appreciated.
If he hadn't placed the tree there for them and later thier kids to substain from they might have ended up like the people on The Time Machine who had become lazy and unconcerned like when Weena fell in the stream....
He could have created us any way he wanted...he could have made us so that we didn't even need oxygen if he chose to. Perhaps he should have created people that could live forever without this problem as well.
Man through the centuries proven they can't get along without God.
How would we know? God supposedly cursed mankind and made everything difficult for him. If a human father hobbled his children and inflicted sickness and disease on them just to prove how needy they are, he'd be considered a monster.
There has to be respect for God and others even with free will.
I want my children to respect me because of the admirable things I do. It's would be meaningless if I had to threaten to punish them if they didn't.
At some point the badness of this world teaches the children to become self absorbed and hate and lose that innocent quality. You cannot deny this fact is true.
Children are born self absorbed....they are wired that way, thats how they survive. They make sure that above all else, that their own needs are met. Have you heard how loudly a newborn baby can cry when it's hungry or wet? It's only as we grow older that we learn to have empathy for others.
God is the one who intentionally brought sickness and death upon humankind and made our lives difficult instead of punishing Satan, the one who deceived his "innocent child like "creation. If humans are self absorbed and hateful and if the story of Adam and Eve is true, then God is the one who made it so by choosing not to follow his own rules about forgiveness and returning evil for evil.
It would be unjust of a father to punish his small children after they had been deceived by a much older sibling punish them in an equally harsh manner. If the story of the Bible is true, Satan has been alive since before Adam and Eve were created and is still living yet billions of humans have suffered, grown old and died. How is this the act of a loving father?
i'm 43 and a divorced mother of 2. in january 2019 i met the man i thought i could spend the rest of my life with.
we were happy and even though our relationship wasn't perfect (like all relationships) i thought we had a chance and were building a life together with our young kids.
background on me - i've been divorced since 2012 after 12 years of marriage.
He was kicked out or left, I'm not sure which, about 18 years ago and in between his had 2 kids out of wedlock by 2 women, been to jail and has battled with addiction prior to meeting me.
People who are raised as JW's and then leave while they are quite young or leave because they were disfellowshipped, often still carry around the wrong idea that JW's are the only true religion and they view themselves as wicked and or lost causes. Because of this they often go down a road of self-destructive behavior and stay on it until they either return to the JW's or they fully and completely come to realize that the religion wasn't true in the first place. In cases where they do return, it usually isn't permanent. Usually the same issues that caused them to leave in the first-place, come up again. Hopefully this takes place before they've compounded the problem by getting someone else involved such as a new JW spouse or a child.
People change and I believe in forgiveness but in view of the past issues this fellow has had in the recent past, coupled with this sudden change that has taken place, as difficult as it may be at first, I'd say you are fortunate to have had this happen now rather than later.
I don't believe God (if he exists) intervenes in our love lives, he likely has a lot more on his plate these days, but if you do think he is somehow involved, why wouldn't it be because he is trying to protect you and your children rather than to cause you heartache?
Your friend has been clean and sober for a little over a year and it's likely that because he no longer has a crutch to lean on, he has chosen a religion that makes him feel safe and left you and your children hanging. It sounds as if he ended the relationship and didn't offer you any choice in the matter.
I hope things work out for him and that you can eventually take pity on the miserable person he must be at this point. In the meantime, I'd say your instincts to put your kids first, is spot on. It's obviously too soon to hitch your wagon to someone who has had and is having the kinds of issues this man has.
it brings to mind my niece when she see`s how dry the countryside is ,how armageddon must be so close..
I can hardly watch the coverage of what is taking place in Australia and the thought of what is happening to the local wildlife is difficult to bear.
It occurred to me that there will likely be JW's who find consolation in thinking that the fires are all part of the "end of the system" and other than protecting their Kingdom Hall or congregation members homes, they are not responsible for doing anything about it personally.
I remember during hurricane Katrina, there were those fundamentalists who said God was punishing New Orleans because of homosexuals and because of Mardi Gra. It's a stretch but do you suppose there are any JW's who go so far as to say that Jehovah is angry at Australia because of the ARC?
i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!
i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?
" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?
It's one thing to talk about what Adam and Eve (if they existed) could have done differently but it is likely that they would have been childlike in terms of experience and would have had no frame of reference from which to base their future actions from that point, on. It seems to me, they wouldn't have been cunning enough to think to strike a bargain with God nor would they have a clue about the future and the impact their not having children would have on it. They likely had no plans or goals for the future, rather they just existed from day to day and followed their instincts, much like a child or even my dog does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwfeoq2514&feature=youtu.be.
300 thousand baptized...we praise Jehovah for BLESSING our wholehearted preaching and disciple work.
What....wasn't he blessing them before when only 150 thousand were baptized ??
fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.
not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.
this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.
They are thoroughly indoctrinated and the only way they can go against their natural instincts is to not see you. Your father has gone the cowardly route by sending you a letter because he doesn't have the heart to do it in person. I'm sure he and your Mother were cringing as they dropped it into the mail. I suspect that if you respond, anything you say will fall on deaf ears and may make him feel justified in his actions. I'm guessing that if you remain silent, they will not only be eaten up with curiosity and guilt but their natural affection will eventually override whatever has triggered this sudden hard line they've taken.
As hard as it is to do, you can give them what they've asked for and if you do, I wouldn't speak of this with anyone you know who may report to your parents what you've said or what your reaction to all this is. Let it be as if you've disappeared off the face of the earth...total silence.
Or:
You could pretend that you didn't receive their letter and call them or visit them as if nothing has happened. Let them tell you to your face that they want to cut ties with you. Don't defend yourself or discuss the matter. Simply have a brief calm response prepared and make your exit.
You: Just so I understand....you don't want to hear from me unless there's a family emergency such as when one of you eventually becomes seriously ill or is hospitalized.
Them: Well yes...
You: It hurts me that it's come to this but I have no choice but to honor your wishes. (say goodbye give them a hug and leave immediately)
hope you are all well,.
i was wondering within the organisation if there are any guidelines or grounds for nullifying a baptism.
see i grew up a jehovah's witness and was baptised at age 13, i didn't get baptised for the right reasons, i felt pressured to because my friends were getting baptised at the same time.
I am now 18yo and haven't spoken to my family since I was 16,
My mother mentioned it was a possibility, considering my father was an elder I thought maybe they knew something the general congregation wasn't made aware of for obvious reasons.
So are you speaking to your parents then...if so what's the problem?
Anyway....baptism is an "outward symbol" of your dedication to Jehovah. It only has meaning for those who attribute meaning to it. Jehovah's Witnesses put a lot of emphasis on living up to ones dedication even though they are quite flexible when it comes to other dedications. We've seen taking place globally, how they sell off Kingdom Halls that were officially and ceremoniously dedicated to Jehovah and built using free JW labor. These building are often sold for a profit to other religious organizations or what they call "Babylon the Great".
Even the "wicked world" realizes that minors lack the capacity to sign a contract because it is presumed that they don't typically understand fully what they are doing. A minor who enters into contracts can either honor the agreement or void the contract Yet JW's hold each other accountable for an agreement they may have entered into as your children even though they weren't allowed to investigate other religions so as to be fully informed of all the options out there.
Having said that, there isn't a provision for nullifying ones baptism. I've heard of cases where Disfellowshippings were reversed but never baptisms. I think your only option is to either just live the best life you can and hope that your parents eventually come around or get yourself reinstated so that you can later fade. I'd be tempted to call Bethel and tell them your situation and ask them to explain to you the scriptural reasoning behind parents shunning their minor children. See if your parents are being overly strict about all of this even by Bethel's standards. If so, what you can do about it. Perhaps they'll advise you to appeal to the Circuit Overseer after all, any reasonable person can see that if you hadn't been baptized as a kid, you wouldn't have been disfellowshipped and your parent's could still talk to you....even if you'd done something worse than what got you D.F'd in the first place.
i have started this, then restarted it, and it still sucks to even write this out - but my younger sister passed away unexpectedly last saturday (on my birthday).
i am going through all the grieving emotions, but there is more to the story that i could never and would never talk about to anyone that didn't understand the jw rhetoric.
so...here i am.. my sister has had borderline personality disorder (bpd) for as long as i can remember.
What I DO want...is at the very least, a relationship with her, a chance to get to know her and vice versa, an opportunity to be her 'support' through this. Instead, I fear the shunning will resume and I'll go back to being shut out of her life again and forever
There's a saying...
"It's easier to put on a pair of slippers than to try and carpet the whole world".
In other words, do whatever you can within your own power and within your own circumstances rather worry about what might happen or try to control what others may do. All you can do is take things as they come, behave honorably and let time take care of the rest.
I grew up for the most part in the U.S. with all of my relatives living in Europe. As a kid, I only saw them a handful of times for a short period of time but the impact those short visits had on me was quite remarkable. A few day to a kid seems like a long time. Later in life we were able to pick up right where we left off as if no time had passed at all. There's some kind of chemistry that takes place between family members that can't be explained. I think your Niece will probably feel the same way when she's older. She will remember fondly the times you spent together and will see the subtle resemblances you have to her mother. She will be old enough to realize the situation and will see you for who you are.
i have started this, then restarted it, and it still sucks to even write this out - but my younger sister passed away unexpectedly last saturday (on my birthday).
i am going through all the grieving emotions, but there is more to the story that i could never and would never talk about to anyone that didn't understand the jw rhetoric.
so...here i am.. my sister has had borderline personality disorder (bpd) for as long as i can remember.
As I was reading your post a couple of things came to mind.
First, I was hoping that as difficult as it was to do, your laying it all out the way you did, brought you some peace of mind and it sounds like it did.
Secondly, as I read, I noticed that even though you are fully aware of sisters mental illness, on some level may be trying to make sense of her actions toward you and are still feeling the sting of the hurtful words and behavior. This is a pretty common and natural thing to do, especially when it's a family member. When there is a violent crime committed, the first thing people want to know of the accused is "what was he thinking...how could he do such a thing?". They are trying to use logic and rational thinking to make sense of the actions of a crazy person. You lived with your sister since childhood so her crazy behavior, as odd as it was, was part of your "normal" day to day life and could be part of the reason why it's so hard to get over. If you worked in a mental care facility and your sister was one of the patients there, you'd be able to dismiss everything she said and did and put it all down to her mental illness. Because as a child, you lived with it day in and day out, you couldn't always see it objectively the way an outsider could.
It's been a long goodbye and right now rather than mourning your sister directly, you are in a sense, mourning your childhood. You're feeling sorrow for your younger self and what you suffered at the hands of your mentally ill sister and suffering the loss of what could have been. On top of that, your sorrow is compounded by the loss of the consolation that family members can bring at these times.
I hope it helps to be reminded that all of this came about through no fault of your own. You didn't choose for your sister to be afflicted with mental illness and you didn't choose to be brought into a religion that causes otherwise rational loving parents to fear god so much that to save their own hides, they must turn their backs on their own offspring.
Memorial and Funerals are to help the living grieve and under the circumstances no one would blame you for not attending however doing so may give your family an excuse to resume their shunning. If you are able to attend and view it as a way to honor the memory of your sister and bring closure to and unfortunate situation, it may bring you a measure of peace in knowing that no matter what others do or say, you did the honorable thing.
In the meantime, you'll need to trust that time will be a friend to you in all of this and that you'll come to grips with all of the troubling feelings your are experiencing at the moment.
